First joy, then sadness, for Henry VIII: A timeline from 1516

[pipisme]

Anne Butler (nee Boleyn) and her husband, James, lived happily in Kilkenny Castle in Ireland. (1) She gave birth to a second son on 18 September 1524, to a daughter on 24 May 1526, to a third son on 28 July 1528 and to a second daughter on 5 October 1530. She and James named them Edmund, Mary, John and Margaret respectively.

Queen Eleanor gave birth to a daughter on 7 April 1523, to two more daughters 14 November 1525 and 11 September 1527, and to a son on 12 April 1529. She and King Henry named their daughters Catherine, Elizabeth, and Joan, and their son Charles.

The Protestant Reformation happened in continental Europe as in OTL. The Lord Chancellor, Cardinal Thomas Wolsey died on 29 November 1530. His palaces at York Place, Whitehall, and Hampton Court were not taken from him by Henry during his lifetime. However the King took them when Wolsey died. He appointed Sir Thomas More as Lord Chancellor. More was more popular than Wolsey, as he lived a more frugal life, less extravagant life.

(1) For Kilkenny Castle see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Castle.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

The Protestant Reformation happened in continental Europe as in OTL.

What? How? England was a big power player in this IOTL

 

[pipisme]

What? How? England was a big power player in this IOTL

I mean as regards the religious aspect. Also, as far as I know, England was not involved in the wars on the continent in OTL.

 

[pipisme]

Anne Butler read books by Erasmus and liked what she read. She was also sympathetic to Lutheran beliefs, though she never became a Lutheran. She wanted reform in the Catholic Church. Her husband, James, agreed with her.

Princess Mary and James V, King of Scots, were married in July 1532. She was crowned Queen of Scotland. After a miscarriage in November 1532, she gave birth to a baby girl on 21 March 1534, She and James named her Mary. Their first son was born on 27 December 1535. They named him James.

The Archbishop of Canterbury, William Warham, died on 22 August 1532. He was succeeded by the Archbishop of Winchester, Stephen Gardiner. (1)

(1) For Gardiner's biography see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gardiner.

 

[pipisme]

Queen Eleanor gave birth to a baby boy on 22 September 1531. She and Henry named him William. They now had five daughters and four sons.

There were widespread attacks on the perceived idleness and wealth of monasteries in England and Wales. Erasmus and Thomas More strongly criticised them, and Wolsey had dissolved some. In 1534, Henry VIII had Parliament authorise Commissioners to visit monasteries in England and Wales, to ascertain the quality of their religious lives. The Suppression of Religious Houses Act 1536 dissolved monasteries and other religious houses in England and Wales which did not have an income from lands, rents etc of more than two hundred pounds a year. (1) Those with an annual income of more than two hundred pounds were not dissolved during Henry's reign, though whether they were in a later reign remains to be seen.

(1) For the Dissolution of the monasteries in OTL see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_monasteries.

 

[Jonathan]

Great time line, might be handy having bold headlines at the top of the paragraphs to differentiate between Time Line Posts and general chat.

I don't want Mary to marry Francis I because of their age difference. Instead she was betrothed to her cousin James V of Scotland in August 1528, and went to live in Scotland.

As much as I can understand feeling this way, sadly it wasn’t the thinking in medieval times, with ageing kings wanting to find a suitable bride for child bearing married a lot younger.

Elizabeth of York was 20 years old when she married 29 year old, Henry VII.
Margaret Tudor was 14, when she married 30 year old, James IV of Scotland.
Mary Tudor was 18, when she married the 52-year-old King Louis XII of France
Catherine Howard was about 17-years-old when she was married to 49 year old, Henry VIII of England

Other examples in English and European history:
- Anne of Brittany, was 13, when she was married by proxy to 31 year old Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor.
- Isabella of France was 12 when married to 24 year old, Edward II of England
Dorothea of Denmark, was 14, when married to 52 year old, Frederick of the Palatinate.
Jacquetta of Luxembourg was 17, married to 43 year old, John of Lancaster, 1st Duke of Bedford
Isabella of Valois, was only 6, when married to 29 year old, King Richard II of England.
Joan of Navarre was around 17 when she was married to 46ish, John IV, Duke of Brittany.

 

[pipisme]

Great time line, might be handy having bold headlines at the top of the paragraphs to differentiate between Time Line Posts and general chat.

As much as I can understand feeling this way, sadly it wasn’t the thinking in medieval times, with ageing kings wanting to find a suitable bride for child bearing married a lot younger.

Elizabeth of York was 20 years old when she married 29 year old, Henry VII.
Margaret Tudor was 14, when she married 30 year old, James IV of Scotland.
Mary Tudor was 18, when she married the 52-year-old King Louis XII of France
Catherine Howard was about 17-years-old when she was married to 49 year old, Henry VIII of England

Other examples in English and European history:
- Anne of Brittany, was 13, when she was married by proxy to 31 year old Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor.
- Isabella of France was 12 when married to 24 year old, Edward II of England
Dorothea of Denmark, was 14, when married to 52 year old, Frederick of the Palatinate.
Jacquetta of Luxembourg was 17, married to 43 year old, John of Lancaster, 1st Duke of Bedford
Isabella of Valois, was only 6, when married to 29 year old, King Richard II of England.
Joan of Navarre was around 17 when she was married to 46ish, John IV, Duke of Brittany.

I'm glad you like this timeline. Thank you for the information about girls married to men a lot older than them. But I'll keep the marriage of Princess Mary and James V. I like having an English/ Scottish marriage.

 

[pipisme]

Only the smaller monasteries were dissolved. That is those shown here as dissolved in 1535 or 1536: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monasteries_dissolved_by_Henry_VIII_of_England. The others were not. So abbeys such as Bolton, Fountains, Glastonbury, Rievaulx, and Tintern continued in existence.

The life and career of Thomas Cromwell was as in OTL until 1530. He was elected MP for Taunton in 1529, but he did not became a royal councillor, nor have any posts in Henry VIII's government. Sir John Tregonwell was appointed was appointed the King's first lay Principal Secretary in 1534. (1)

The Pilgrimage of Grace in 1536-37, led by Robert Aske, happened as in OTL. Its causes were economic and social grievances, and the dissolution of monasteries. However Aske was not imprisoned and executed.

Jane Seymour entered the service of Eleanor of Austria as a maid of honour in 1529. In due course she attracted the attention and lust of King Henry, and became his mistress. She gave birth to his son on 22 March 1537. They named him John. Henry did not have a jousting accident in 1536, so he stayed healthy and in good physical condition.

Mary, Queen of Scotland, gave birth to a stillborn baby boy on 25 July 1537.

John Fisher, Bishop of Rochester, died on 5 August 1539. He was 69 years. He has been canonised by the Catholic Church because of his holy life.

(1) For Tregonwell see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tregonwell.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Can we get some threadmarks?

but he did not became a royal councillor, nor have any posts in Henry VIII's government

What did he then do?

 

[pipisme]

Can we get some threadmarks?

What did he then do?

Can we get some threadmarks?

What did he then do?

I will add threadmarks

He was a lawyer and member of parliament.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

He was a lawyer and member of parliament.

Fair. His career post POD could be interesting....

 

[pipisme]

Francois, Dauphin of France and Duke of Brittany, did not die on 10 August 1536. The circumstances of his death were suspicious and poison was suspected. (1) As to the heir to the throne of France, he needed to marry an eligible princess. On 27 May 1537 he married Princess Margaret, second daughter of Henry VIII and Queen Eleanor. They were nineteen and eighteen years old respectively.

Margaret gave birth to a baby girl on 18 February 1538, to a boy on 20 June 1539, and to a second son on 7 May 1541. She and Francois named their children Elisabeth, Francois and Henri respectively.

James, Prince of Scotland, only son of James V and Queen Mary, died on 3 September 1537. Mary gave birth to a girl on 8 June 1539, and to another daughter on 16 March 1541. She and James named them Anne and Margaret respectively. Their fourth daughter was born 18 November 1542. They named her Isabel. Mary had endured a long and difficult labour and she died nine days later on 27 November. The cause of death was probably puerpal fever. James died on 13 December 1542, some say of a broken heart, but he had been ill before. His eldest daughter, Mary, now became Mary, Queen of Scots.

There was no battle of Solway Moss on 24 November 1542, because there was not war between England and Scotland. ( 2)

(1) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_III,_Duke_of_Brittany.

(2) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Solway_Moss.

 

[pipisme]

Mary, Queen of Scots, was now an orphan. Her paternal grand mother, Margaret Tudor had died the previous year. Her maternal grandparents, King Henry and Queen Eleanor, were living in England. So James Hamilton, Earl of Moray, illegitimate half-brother of James V, and his wife, Lady Elizabeth, became like a father and mother to her, Mary was half English, one quarter Scottish, and one quarter Spanish. She had the same father and paternal Scottish ancestry as Mary in OTL, but different mother and maternal ancestry.

Mary was only eight years old and the sixth consecutive Scottish monarch who came to the throne when a child. James Hamilton, Second Earl of Arran, declared himself Regent. A husband needed to be found for her. There was Francois (born 20 June 1539) eldest son of Francois, Dauphin of France and Princess Margaret. Arran wanted his eldest son, James (born 1536 or 1537) to marry her. Henry VIII wanted her to marry his younger son, William (born 23 Septembet 1531). He promised his youngest daughter, Joan (born 11 September 1527) to Arran's son James. In return Arran would support the marriage proposal of William to Mary.

Mary of Guise, wife of Henry, Prince of Wales, gave birth to a stillborn boy on 22 July 1534, and to a baby girl on 15 February 1536. She and Henry named her Catherine. A son was born to them on 3 October 1537. They named him Arthur.

 

[pipisme]

The Scottish parliament agreed to the proposed marriage of Mary, Queen of Scots, to Prince William Tudor. However, King Henry wanted Mary to go and live in England. Parliament wanted her to live in Scotland until she was twelve years old. Under the terms of the Treaty of Richmond signed on 14 June 1543, Mary and William would be betrothed. She would continue living in Scotland, until she was twelve years old.

 

[pipisme]

Because Prince William was Eleanor's and Henry's younger son and his older brother had a son, it was unlikely that he would succeed to the throne of England. So he would go to live in Scotland with Mary, Queen of Scots, instead that she going to live in England with him.

On 7 July 1543, Princess Joan was betrothed to James Hamilton, son of the second Earl of Arran.

 

[pipisme]

Mary of Guise gave birth to a baby boy on 13 March 1539, to a girl on 18 February 1541, and to another boy on 9 April 1542. She and her husband, Henry, Prince of Wales, named them Henry, Elizabeth and Edmund respectively. They now had three sons and two daughters. Prince Henry was a compassionate, gentle, kind and quiet man. He loved his wife and their children deeply. He felt most at home at Tickenhall Palace in Worcestershire, with his wife and children. (1). He liked being outside in the open air. He enjoyed gardening and hunting. He took his title of Prince of Wales seriously, and visited Wales regularly. In 1539 he ordered the construction of a country house near Llangollen in Denbighshire in north-east Wales, called Plas Newydd (New Palace). Its construction was completed in 1546. He and Mary, and their children lived there some of the time.

Henry was a practising Catholic who wanted reforms in the Church. He hoped for reconciliation between Catholics and Protestants. He advocated the translation of the Bible into the vernacular, Holy Communion under both bread and wine, and the end of compulsory celibacy for the clergy. In 1542 he commissioned the translation of the Bible into Welsh. He abhorred the burning of heretics and condemned it as cruel.

He kept a journal in which he wrote about his day to day life, and his beliefs and opinions.

(1) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickenhall_Palace,

 

[pipisme]

By 1538 Henry VIII had tired of Jane Seymour as his mistress. She married Francis Talbot, 5th Earl of Shrewsbury on 21 May 1539. They had two daughters and three sons, born April 1540 and July 1549. Francis died 25 September 1560 and Jane on 9 April 1569. When she married she became Countess of Shrewsbury.

Catherine Howard married Francis Dereham on 15 May 1540. (1) They had three sons and a daughter born between February 1541 and April 1547. Catherine died from complications following the birth of their third son.

Catherine Parr's second husband, John Neville, 3rd Baron Latimer, died on 2 March 1543. She married Thomas Seymour on 23 June 1543. She gave birth to three girls and two boys between May 1544 and January 1552. She died a widow on 5 September 1572.

(1) For Dereham see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Dereham.

 

[bdbxwz]

T

Because Eleanor of Austria married Henry VIII, she could not marry Manuel I of Portugal. Instead he married Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Savoy, on 16 July 1518. (1)

Queen Eleanor gave birth to a baby girl on 15 April 1519. She and Henry named her Margaret, after Eleanor's aunt and surrogate mother. Elizabeth Blount was still Henry's mistress.

(1) For Margaret see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Austria,_Duchess_of_Savoy.

his does not change much in terms of Portugal, since that old man died shortly after Eleanor married him, and frankly it’s far better for Eleanor to marry Henry than to Francis like she did in real history

 

[isabella]

Because Prince William was Eleanor's and Henry's younger son and his older brother had a son, it was unlikely that he would succeed to the throne of England. So he would go to live in Scotland with Mary, Queen of Scots, instead that she going to live in England with him.

On 7 July 1543, Princess Joan was betrothed to James Hamilton, son of the second Earl of Arran.

Joan of Scotland? Because only a princess of Scotland could make such match (specially if James V has left more than one living daughter)

 

[pipisme]

Francois I of France died on 31 March 1547. He was succeeded by his 29 year old eldest son, Francois II.

Reginald Pole became Bishop of Ely in 1532, Bishop of London in 1539, and Archbishop of York in 1544. Later that year he was made a cardinal by Pope Paul III. At the papal conclave from November to December 1549, he was elected Pope. He chose the name Gregory XIII.

Henry VIII died on 23 January 1551. He was 59 years old. Because he was healthier than in OTL he lived longer. He was succeeded by his 33 year old eldest son, Henry IX. Although the new king was a Catholic, he ended all persecution of Protestants. He abhorred punishing people for their religious beliefs, and passionately believed that it was against the will of a loving God.

Sir Thomas More died on 2 June 1553. He was 74 years old. He retired as Lord Chancellor in February 1548, when he reached the age of seventy, to live a life of prayer and penance. He was a member of the Third Order of St. Francis. He was friends with Henry VIII and Henry IX. He was canonised by the Pope in 1959 because of his holy life. He is the patron saint of politicians.