WI: The Siamese attacks Japan during the Imjin War

[GameBawesome]

According to some historians in Asia, during the Imjin War (When Japan under Toyotomi Hideyoshi invaded the Kingdom of Joseon), supposedly the Kingdom of Ayutthaya (Modern-Day Thailand), made a proposal to the Ming Chinese. They offered to dispatch a naval force to sail and attack Japan directly, therefore joining the war.

Even if this was an actual proposal made by the Siamese, historians' debate what was their motivations to joining the war. Some say it was out of loyalty to the Chinese due to the tribute system in place, while others have argued that it was economically, as the Siamese got wind of Hideyoshi’s threats to the Philippines and the Ryukyu Kingdom via various routes and could've potentially threatened Siamese trading ships or South China Sea-based Chinese Merchants.

Although from what I'm reading, some Ming Chinese and Korea did support the idea of using Siamese troops, the Chinese declined the proposal, and it went nowhere.

What if the Chinese did accept the offer made by the Siamese, and they began to mobilize a fleet to ferry troops to invade Japan while the Japanese were invading Korea, in an effort to divert them away from the peninsula?

Now realistically-speaking, would've this even been possible? And if you believe so, how successful would it even have been, if even at all? Or would the Siamese meet a similar fate to the Mongols, and not make it much far? Or was this plan entirely crazy (To be fair, IMO I would agree)

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Given how far Siam (now Thailand) was from Japan, I am not sure that Thai troops would be able to make it in time to attack Japan. The most likely option for Thai troops and sailors to see action in the Imjin war is to serve as a battalion of Chinese and Korean back privateers and warships, attacking Japanese military vessels. An interesting option, though, is that the Thai sailors do very well in the Imjin war, enough so that the Thai kingdom gains interest in naval affairs, and starts building a professional military fleet and a civilian merchant fleet. This could increase Thai involvement in the Indonesian archipelago, and maybe even lead to the creation of a Thai colonial empire (maybe the Thai discover Australia, and gain control of Madagascar.).

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

According to some historians in Asia, during the Imjin War (When Japan under Toyotomi Hideyoshi invaded the Kingdom of Joseon), supposedly the Kingdom of Ayutthaya (Modern-Day Thailand), made a proposal to the Ming Chinese. They offered to dispatch a naval force to sail and attack Japan directly, therefore joining the war.

Even if this was an actual proposal made by the Siamese, historians' debate what was their motivations to joining the war. Some say it was out of loyalty to the Chinese due to the tribute system in place, while others have argued that it was economically, as the Siamese got wind of Hideyoshi’s threats to the Philippines and the Ryukyu Kingdom via various routes and could've potentially threatened Siamese trading ships or South China Sea-based Chinese Merchants.

Although from what I'm reading, some Ming Chinese and Korea did support the idea of using Siamese troops, the Chinese declined the proposal, and it went nowhere.

What if the Chinese did accept the offer made by the Siamese, and they began to mobilize a fleet to ferry troops to invade Japan while the Japanese were invading Korea, in an effort to divert them away from the peninsula?

Now realistically-speaking, would've this even been possible? And if you believe so, how successful would it even have been, if even at all? Or would the Siamese meet a similar fate to the Mongols, and not make it much far? Or was this plan entirely crazy (To be fair, IMO I would agree)

At the time Japan had an extremely high number of samurai which were also veterans from the civil war and were using the most modern warfare technology of the time (arquebuses bought from the Portuguese) therefore if Siam tries to invade the mainland it will fail miserably.
The reason why Japan lost in the Imjin war was because their fleet was much worse than the Korean one so they couldn't reinforce the invasion after the initial landings.
Therefore this Siamese involvement would be a waste of resources which would be inconsequential.

 

[WhatSantayanaSaid]

At the time Japan had an extremely high number of samurai which were also veterans from the civil war and were using the most modern warfare technology of the time (arquebuses bought from the Portuguese) therefore if Siam tries to invade the mainland it will fail miserably.
The reason why Japan lost in the Imjin war was because their fleet was much worse than the Korean one so they couldn't reinforce the invasion after the initial landings.
Therefore this Siamese involvement would be a waste of resources which would be inconsequential.

Plus, it's not like the Japanese sent all their forces to Korea. Tokugawa Ieyasu, for example, never sent any.

That said, more naval forces could have shortened the war. While the Joseon navy did score major victories against the Japanese, poor judgment in both phases of the war saw it lose hundreds of ships to scuttling and ambush. A larger navy would've been more effective at cutting off Japanese supply lines and reinforcements earlier.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Plus, it's not like the Japanese sent all their forces to Korea. Tokugawa Ieyasu, for example, never sent any.

That said, more naval forces could have shortened the war. While the Joseon navy did score major victories against the Japanese, poor judgment in both phases of the war saw it lose hundreds of ships to scuttling and ambush. A larger navy would've been more effective at cutting off Japanese supply lines and reinforcements earlier.

The ships would arrive in the later stages of the war as they would have to assembly a fleet and send it so it would come when the Koreans were beginning to fight back

 

[tonsofun]

Plus, it's not like the Japanese sent all their forces to Korea. Tokugawa Ieyasu, for example, never sent any.

If Siam attacks the mainland then it will be down to Tokugawa Ieyasu to beat them back. Doing so, will only make him more popular. It might make the upcoming civil war even more one sided as many clans might see Tokugawa as the defender of Japan while Hideyoshi was pissing around in Korea.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

This is why the most likely option in my opinion is for Thailand to send a bunch of Thai privateers and ships to attack Japanese war ships and shipping supplying those said warships, and if it does well enough, Thailand could gain a interest in naval development which in turn could lead Thailand to Westernize at least a little bit, with European advisers. And if that happens, not only could Thailand expand an ally into the Indonesia/ Malaysia area, it also could expand into mainland South East Asia. (Mainly Burma, Laos, and Cambodia- Burma to avenge the 1767 Burmese attack on Ayutthaya, -in this scenario it could be possible for the Thai to turn back the Burmese campaign- Cambodia to stop Cambodian raids and install Thai influence in Cambodia, and Laos because quite a bit of Laos speak the Kra-Dai languages)

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

This is why the most likely option in my opinion is for Thailand to send a bunch of Thai privateers and ships to attack Japanese war ships and shipping supplying those said warships, and if it does well enough, Thailand could gain a interest in naval development which in turn could lead Thailand to Westernize at least a little bit, with European advisers. And if that happens, not only could Thailand expand an ally into the Indonesia/ Malaysia area, it also could expand into mainland South East Asia. (Mainly Burma, Laos, and Cambodia- Burma to avenge the 1767 Burmese attack on Ayutthaya, -in this scenario it could be possible for the Thai to turn back the Burmese campaign- Cambodia to stop Cambodian raids and install Thai influence in Cambodia, and Laos because quite a bit of Laos speak the Kra-Dai languages)

Its very unlikely they do

 

[sarapen]

This is why the most likely option in my opinion is for Thailand to send a bunch of Thai privateers and ships to attack Japanese war ships and shipping supplying those said warships, and if it does well enough, Thailand could gain a interest in naval development which in turn could lead Thailand to Westernize at least a little bit, with European advisers. And if that happens, not only could Thailand expand an ally into the Indonesia/ Malaysia area, it also could expand into mainland South East Asia. (Mainly Burma, Laos, and Cambodia- Burma to avenge the 1767 Burmese attack on Ayutthaya, -in this scenario it could be possible for the Thai to turn back the Burmese campaign- Cambodia to stop Cambodian raids and install Thai influence in Cambodia, and Laos because quite a bit of Laos speak the Kra-Dai languages)

The Thai would find it hard to expand in maritime Southeast Asia since the people there had a lot more experience with naval warfare and had ships armed with cannons and swivel-guns. The money would probably be better spent hiring Malay privateers to raid Japanese shipping or attack the coasts of rivals in Indochina.